CMA Connect
CMA Connect

Episode · 7 months ago

EP28 - Retail media’s flywheel of investment with Dana Toering

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Today, on CMA Connect, we bring you Vice President of Walmart Connect Canada Dana Toering. Dana specializes in the world of data in marketing, having worked with brands like Adobe, AOL Canada, Accenture Interactive, and fun fact: Kanye West.

John and Dana dig into a case study of Walmart Connect, with some of the strategies and thinking behind the program.

“I always talk about this sort of virtuous flywheel of investment that retail media provides partners, in the sense that, we work with the vendors that sell products on the shelves at Walmart, they invest their dollars with us, and we try through our solutions and channels to leverage our first party data to drive great ROI”

  • Partnership and collaboration channels in retail

“Since the mid 70s, retailers have been working with merchants, vendors and suppliers, to provide them opportunities to connect with customers, in their stores, in the form of advertising in the form of trade investment, and this (Walmart Connect) is a natural evolution of that for the age of connectivity.”

  • What's the quid pro quo for consumers to actually share their data with retailers?

“I think the key is how we use the mountain of purchase level data we have that is both ecommerce driven, as well as from retail locations. We understand what consumers are buying, when they're buying it, what their basket composition looks like. As we start to create a view of this customer our goal is not to hound them around the internet with ads; our goal is to make their experience better, and provide them offers on behalf of brands, in those moments.”

  • Retail trends - what Dana sees coming in the next few years that will bring together the online and offline world

“I think you're going to see a lot more digital signage in stores. Customers tend to wait a little bit, either they're waiting for the butcher to cut their meat, or their prescription. So there's an opportunity there to create a content experience, and then feather in ads.”

For all of this and more about the opportunities and the obstacles that marketers face around the collection and use of consumer data, tune into this episode of CMA Connect.

...(*** Please note that this transcript is auto- generated and may contain errors it' s(*** Please note that this transcript is auto- generated and a lot of these types of forms, which is diminished signal strength, right, and and companies that you know leverage second third party data that was mostly captured through the use of cookies will diminished, and so it makes it more important than ever to work with strong partners with strong first party data assets, right, because the impact on the industry is squarely in the ability to measure, which, as a marketer, as we as we know, is something is something that we need to do. Welcome to CEMA connect, the Canadian marketing community. Join us. Would we have empowering discussions with industry leaders about the rapidly changing world of marketing and ask the questions no one else is asking. I'm your host, John will share. Welcome everyone. Today we Today we have Daana touring, vice president of Walmart Connect Canada, on has many, many years experience. He's worked at places LIKE ADOBE AOL Canada. Extent, you're interactive, so he comes into this world of data and of data and marketing with a good pedigree. Dana. It's wonderful to have you on the program today. It's great to be here, John. Thanks Yeah, and I'm really looking forward to getting into the conversation on Walmart connect but obviously I want to get in behind and some of the details that or it's some of this strategies that went into the thinking behind that program and and and make sure that we make that relevant for our listeners today as they today as they are looking at doing similar things as we continue to move into real and virtual alignment with our marketing program so it's great to have you on have you on the program today. Let me just start with a simple question how you got into this role. Can you can you walk us through in a minute or two about what you'll learn it each of the different stops that different stops that you you came into before landing this job, but citing job Yeah, absolutely. You know, I've spent my whole career working at the Cross section of digital media, online publishing and the associated technology that that, technology that that, you know, underpins this ecosystem, so ad tack and And you know, I really loved what was happening in the retail media space because, you know, for as long as I could remember you know, remember you know, having worked for with peer play publishers like all ice. Yahoo as well. I worked for can west back in the day when they were, you know, Canada's largest integrated me be a company. So, So, you know, we had like the news, the newspapers, well as the the broadcast assets and peer played digital assets. And then, And then, you know again, as you mentioned, spent spend time at you know, working with and and and early, really early in my career, with with double click, which is, you know, really the really the underpinning technology of Google's dad tech ecosystem, and I just loved how it all came together so beautifully in the retail media space in the sense know, as as an e commerce provider and and a pure play retailer turned publisher in essence, right, you know, just a really incredible opportunity to provide, you know, true value to advertisers in terms of how they were spending their their marketing dollars and specifically their AD dollars. In the sense that, you know, working, you know, again in sort of pure play media companies, there wasn't always that ability to close the loop on attribution. may contain errors***) I think the impact on the industry is is fairly straightforward, which is it' s what you know. You hear a lot of talk about in a lot of these types of forms, which is diminished signal strength, right, and and companies that you know leverage second third party data that was mostly captured through the use of cookies will diminished, and so it makes it more important than ever to work with strong partners with strong first party data assets, right, because the impact on the industry is squarely in the ability to measure, which, as a marketer, as we as we know, voice of the Canadian marketing community. Join us. Would we have empowering discussions with industry leaders about the rapidly changing world of marketing and ask the questions no one else is asking. I'm your host, John will share. Welcome everyone. the program Dana has many, many years experience. He's worked at places LIKE ADOBE AOL Canada. Extent, you're interactive, so he comes into this world for having me. Yeah, and I'm really looking forward to getting into the conversation on Walmart connect but obviously I want to get in behind and some of the details that or it's some of this strategies that went into the thinking behind that program and and and make sure that we make that relevant for our listeners this combination of real and virtual alignment with our marketing program so it's great to on your on how you got into this role. Can you can you walk us through in a minute or two about what you'll learn it each of the with a level? Yeah, absolutely. You know, I've spent my whole career working at the Cross section of digital media, online publishing and the associated and Marketing Technology. And you know, I really loved what was happening in the retail media space because, you know, for as long as I could I worked at Yahoo as well. I worked for can west back in the day when they were, you know, Canada's largest integrated me be a company. obviously, as well as the the broadcast assets and peer played digital assets. Adobe. So, you know, working with and and and early, really early in my career, with with double click, which is, you know, that, you know, as as an e commerce provider and and a pure play retailer turned publisher in essence, right, you know, just a really incredible opportunity to provide, you know, true value to advertisers in terms of how they were spending their their marketing dollars and specifically their AD dollars. In the sense that, you know, working, you know, again in sort of pure play media companies, there wasn't always that ability to close the loop on attribution. There was that ability to measure and to really know the customer...

There was that ability to measure and to really know the customer at the level that that you can in the retail media space. So, you know, I always talked about this sort of, you know, virtuous fly wheel of investment that retail media provides. You know, all partners right in the sense that, you know, we work with the vendors that sell products on the shelves at Walmart and you know, they invest their dollars with us. We us. We take those we try, through, you know, our solutions and leveraging our first party dated to drive great Roi and return and efficient and effective ad spend for them. It sounds like you are a passionate adoptee of of all of this, the work that's going on with Walmart connect. I did want to just kind of draw back a little bit and I you know, when I think about Walmart connect, something in the back of my mind of my mind it is it been there before? Is Is it's a rebrand on? Can you try to take us into what's going on with Walmart connect, how long it's been in place and what you're what you're trying to do and how it's different from others who are doing similar things? Yeah, absolutely, and just to finish what I was saying just very quickly was we were was we were reinvesting, you know, right back into making the platform better. So, like for me again, and I think for a lot of for connect it's like, you know, it's truly this you know, virtuous cycle of value that that flows between ourselves and our vendors and in our customers. in our customers. And so to answer your next question, that this is in the sense that, you know, ever since like sort of the you know, probably the the mid S, retailers have been, you know, you know, working with merchants, working with vendors and suppliers to provide them with customers, you know, in their stores in the form of advertising, in the form of bright no trade investment or what was like formally coop dollars and that type of activity. And this is just like a natural evolution of that. And obviously now we're living in an age of connectivity, of of you know, digital technology, of you know, big data, and so and so I think this is what, you know, what it has it's all come together and the in this really great way to you know, create create true value and create a, you know, really strong business model as well as for the for the retailers, and so, you know, you know, Walmart, believe it or not, was actually the first retailer to to put put better ats on their website, you know, sort of into the ECOMM space, as they were, you know, in sort of the mid two thousands. They were, they were literally the first retailer to throw up a banner at on their website, and so that evolved eventually. You know, about seven eight years ago, Walmart launched business here in Canada called Walmart Media Group, and the US followed suit shortly thereafter. Canada was Canada was really, you know, the the the first market for Walmart a media operation and in sort of as it evolves, as the business continue to sort of spread into different parts of the ecosystem that that Walmart has both online and in store. You know, we realized, you know, media is is just a part of what we do. Creating great experiences that allow brands to act with our customers and moments that matter was truly what we're all about, and so hence the change to Walmart connect and that, you know, our tagline. You know, more than media really about creating these great experiences in these great connections between our customers and the brands that they love. they love. When you think about Walmart connect, where is where are its I know this may be an obvious question, but for for some of us or who just kind of thinking through this type of business proposition from a consumer at the level that that you can in the retail media space. So, you know, I always talked about this sort of, you know, virtuous fly wheel of investment that retail media provides. You know, all partners right in the sense that, you know, we work with the vendors that sell products on the shelves at Walmart and you know, they invest their dollars with and in channels and leveraging our first party dated to drive great Roi and return and efficient and effective ad spend for them. It sounds like you are a passionate adoptee of of all of this, the work that's going on with Walmart connect. I did want to just kind of draw back a little bit and I you know, when I think about Walmart connect, something in the back or what's going on? Can you try to take us into what's going on with Walmart connect, how long it's been in place and what you're what you're trying to do and how it's different from others who are doing similar things? Yeah, absolutely, and just to finish what I was saying just very quickly people that work for connect it's like, you know, it's truly this you know, virtuous cycle of value that that flows between ourselves and our vendors and not new right in the sense that, you know, ever since like sort of the you know, probably the the mid S, retailers have been, opportunities to connect with customers, you know, in their stores in the form of advertising, in the form of bright no trade investment or what was like formally coop dollars and that type of activity. And this is just like a natural evolution of that. And obviously now we're living in an age of connectivity, of of you know, digital technology, of you know, big data, for the advertisers as well as for the for the retailers, and so, like slow paced into the ECOMM space, as they were, you know, in sort of the mid two thousands. They were, they were literally the first retailer to throw up a banner at on their website, and so that evolved eventually. You know, about seven eight years ago, Walmart launched business here in Canada called Walmart Media Group, and the US followed suit shortly thereafter. internationally to launch a media operation and in sort of as it evolves, as the business continue to sort of spread into different parts of the ecosystem that that Walmart has both online and in store. You know, we realized, you know, media is is just a part of what we do. Creating great experiences that allow brands to act with our customers and moments that matter was truly what we're all about, and so hence the change to Walmart connect and that, you know, our tagline. You know, more than media really about creating these great experiences in these great connections between our customers and the brands that boundaries in? I know this may be an obvious question, but for for some of us or who just kind of thinking through this type of business proposition...

...from a consumer perspective, does Walmart Connect Start and the gates to the the see a website? or or are you actually defining that opportunity beyond into the social channels which which might you might use to drive target and driving shoppers into into Walmart? Yeah, you so. You know the you know the entire know the entire Internet is available to us, the entire audience. You Know on his own has incredible scale and reach. You know the over two million Canadians a day shop at Walmart. Other in store and online. We reach. You know eighty plus percent of Canadian households across the country. You know You know four hundred two stores. You know over thirteen million unique visitors on our website over you know four million and growing active APP users. So so we have like a very strong footprint in you know what is our like But obviously you know the the connectivity and and you know, the tools that the tools that we have access to to be able to reach you know, you know, extend far beyond our borders, all right, and and certainly you know, the ability to segments our customer data and actively target them in other parts of you know, their online and their shopping journey is absolutely something that we do. So we've got great, great platform partnerships with the Meta with the Meta platforms, obviously, you know, with our with our friends You know, we've got we've got growing relationships with with pinterest and tick Tock, and then, you know, access to audiences across, you know, you know, the publishing landscape through demand side platforms. So so we're we pretend to think that the the shopping experience is linear, as linears it used linears it used to be. We understand that, you know, people are products all the time and then and they're just covering places to shop all the shop all the time. And that doesn't always happen at destinations. It can their social feed, it can happen while they're reading a news article. It article. It could happen whether, you know, in their email and me do research. A I just bought a yesterday. I just got delivered a got delivered a brand new totally bought online, a brand new burbecube from what research done at all, and it came in the big, huge heavy box huge heavy box with about four hundred and twenty two pieces. Looking at it, I have learned the importance of research when it comes to buying these these but you know, this whole notion of understanding consumers from their own behavior through first party data, obviously is a growing trend among the larger retail change in retail change in Canada. Often is integrated with the loyalty program I won't own particular one, but there's one out there that you know is health and groceries, and they have a pretty fantastic loyality program. They actually pay you for pay you for using cruising through their their site in their program. Is this than that? And and what's the quid pro quote for consumers to actually share to actually share their data with you? Yeah, well, I think you know, obviously loyalty, customer Loys is important to us as well. You Walmart for rocks we've always led with, you know, our value proposition to customers, which is, you know, to help them save money then to money then to live, to live better lives. I think that breeds loyalty in and of itself. But you know, we have so many touch points with customers like that. I think that's the key, right is is you start, you know we sit on a mountain of purchase level data. Obviously like both, you know, ecommerce driven as well as obviously, you know you know the majority of that could coming from the retail location. So we understand what consumers are buying, when they're buying it. You know what thecom or got see a website? or or are you actually defining that opportunity beyond into the social channels which which might you might use to drive target and driving shoppers into into Walmart? Yeah, you so. You know the you Cross Canada Walmart on his own has incredible scale and reach. You know the over two million Canadians a day shop at Walmart. Other in store and online. We reach. You know eighty plus percent of Canadian households across the country. endemic footprints. But obviously you know the the connectivity and and you know, potential customers, you know, extend far beyond our borders, all right, and and certainly you know, the ability to segments our customer data and actively target them in other parts of you know, their online and their shopping journey is absolutely something that we do. So we've got great, great platform partnerships at Google. You know, we've got we've got growing relationships with with pinterest and tick Tock, and then, you know, access to audiences across, definitely do not pretend to think that the the shopping experience is linear, as people are discovering products all the time and then and they're just covering places to happen whether browsing their social feed, it can happen while they're reading a news all of them do research. A I just bought a yesterday. I just part? No research done at all, and it came in the big, things. And but you know, this whole notion of understanding consumers from their own behavior through first party data, obviously is a growing trend among the larger speak to a particular one, but there's one out there that you know is health and groceries, and they have a pretty fantastic loyality program. They actually a different approach than that? And and what's the quid pro quote for consumers know, at Walmart for rocks we've always led with, you know, our value proposition to customers, which is, you know, to help them save know, to start, you know we sit on a mountain of purchase level data. Obviously like both, you know, ecommerce driven as well as obviously,...

...their basket composition looks like and then you know, to your point about research, is like they're you know even you know the customers that come to our know, we know what they're searching for. Right. We've got one of the largest search engines in Canada. You know, there's millions of millions of searches a day that are that are done on our side and it doesn't always, it doesn't always, it doesn't always end up in a purchase online. Again, to the the consumer path to purchase. You know, someone like you might like you might go on in research barbecues on Walmart. UNDERSTAND PRICING RIGHT, their price comparisoning, their researching their building shopping lists and then, you know, will transact online, maybe they'll go in store, and so, you know, you know, then we have browsed. You know, we have a lot of brows or history. So we have a lot of like web based activity that we're able to glean. So the sharing data part, you know, you know, short of you know, the customers that are authenticating themselves by like, you know, downloading the APP or are signing into the website, which which there's there's many. We have, you know, over seventeen and growing in our customer data platform. Wow, but you know, and know, and then we start to stitch together, you know, some of some of the ad based data that we get as well, and then and then as you start to create, you know, a view of like, you know, when they're shopping, how they're shopping, what they're what they're buying, and then, hopefully, you know, our goal is not to then, you know, hound them around the Internet with ads. is then to you know, make their experience better. You know, it's know, it's to provide them offers on behalf of brands in those moments that we think would be relevant to them, that we think is personal and an additive to their shopping experience, not, you know, not disruptive. So that's that's really how we approach it. I like it. It's about it's shopping experience and that's what get into it. Now I want to talk a to talk a little bit about online and offline. So go back to my probably had. I gone into the the place where bout the barbecue, and actually I did and looked around. I assume that the the value for the advertiser. It is going to be there in terms of how that portrayed within the physical store and they just needs to be carried back into the online environment. From there it's there's some do you think about the whole experience being in store and online, m offline. Yeah, yeah, very much. So much. So our solutions in the our approach is again, you know, only, you know, a fraction of our of our revenue, and so and so we know that, you know, the majority of our sales come in store. So the in store experience and opportunity is really important to really important to us and certainly really important to the brands that that we work with. And so we're at a stage now where we're able to provide our clients with a true view of Omni Roas, of Omni return on adspend, that can be literally defined, as you know, both combining the in store with with with the online data and so so that's continuing to evolve. By no means is you know, the methodology and framework, you know, you know, a hundred percent. They're we're there's still, you know, to be done, there're still building and we're constantly testing and learning and working with our partners to refine it. But we're really excited about, you know, you know, having this closed loop attribution offer that can that you know, can truly provide brands with, you know, a very, very measured how their investment is working to grow their business. With Walmart, what do what do you see in terms of, if you to stretch your mind out a few years, like what will be some of the technology introductions around site. You know, we know what they're searching for. Right. We've got one of the largest search engines in Canada. You know, there's millions of millions of searches a day that are that are done on our side and the talks to the the consumer path to purchase. You know, someone maybe they will transact online, maybe they'll go in store, and so, activity and behavioral activity that we're able to glean. So the sharing data part, million active profiles and growing in our customer data platform. Wow, but you that behavioral stuff, some of the ad based data that we get as well, this customer of like, you know, when they're shopping, how they're shopping, Our goal is then to you know, make their experience better. You about improving the shopping experience and that's what get into it. Now I want barbecue story I probably had. I gone into the the place where bout the barbecue, and actually I did and looked around. I assume that the the value for the advertiser. It is going to be there in terms of how that portrayed within the physical store and they just needs to be carried back into the online environment. From there it's there's some do you think about the whole experience being in store and online, m offline. Yeah, yeah, very e commerce is only, you know, a fraction of our of our revenue, do come do come in store. So the in store experience and opportunity is and you know, that can be literally defined, as you know, both combining the in store with with with the online data and so so that's continuing to evolve. By no means is you know, the methodology and framework, they're still work to be done, there're still building and we're constantly testing and learning and working with our partners to refine it. But we're really excited about, way to understand how their investment is working to grow their business. With Walmart, trying to bring together the online offline world? Well, you see a lot...

...together the online offline world? Well, you see a lot more kiosking and retail or you see what? What? where? Are Some of the trends of the trends that you can see? Yeah, you can see, you neighbors to the south, they're experimenting with a bunch of stuff. The opportunities are really endless if you really think about it, I think I think you're I think you're going to see a lot more you know, digital signage in think you're going to see a lot more you know and add different different stages. So like, you know, be it. You know you're in the you're in the apparel section and you know there's sunage that's appropriate for there. our stores in Canada. We have it. We have, you know, you know, what we call a TV wall in our electronic section, which is which is part of our offering. We just, you know, we screens and in in areas of our stores like the Delhi fresh section and soon too be in pharmacy where, you know, customers tend to wait a little wait a little bit, either they're waiting for, you know, the butcher to cut their meat or they're waiting for their prescription. Right. So there's a there's an opportunity there to create both corporate messaging and a content experience in then, you know, feather in and ads experience and so but I think but I think where things really get exciting, John, is with the APP right, and I think you know, we have a very promising and exciting our APP will be, you know, beyond just another version of the website of the website where you can shop. And so, you know, again, the US, you know, the APP for walmartcom is very much you know, much you know, when you're at home and you're on the couch and you're it's any commerce experience. When you're in the store, it's more of a shopping aid, right. Love Them. That's great. So so I think so I think that, you know, because everyone's got a cell phone in if you're get it, you're a loyal customer. It's going to be it's to be it's going to just take the shopping experience to a whole other level. So when I think about the future, that's what really gets me excited. the possibilities both for us in terms of creating a great customer experience as Walmart, but also to the brands that we work with to be able to connect with with those customers in real time, while while they are in the source. Yeah, I'm a little this the plant. I have to say that that you didn't. Your answer wasn't writtinal scanning devices and facial recognition stuffware? Yeah, like, well, we'll save the what is it? Was that Was that maybe my minority report? Yeah, yeah, and I would think about the same thing. Yeah, it to be to be a little I mean, I know that they're, you know, see me as see me as an active file around the modernization of privacy. Ladies say, supporting to get it right. But we're also seeing some other things happening as well in terms of the death of cookies and and around the world, there seems to be a degree as the greater sensitivity, at least at the government level, about you know, that's going to be challenging from ours, facing new obstacles around the collection and use of consumer data what like? What do What do you see a Dana on their horizon? And and how could this impact the marking profession? And and what are you doing the here, Walmart, that you think is going to be advantageous to that situation? Yeah, I think, first of all, I think you know, the thing that the thing that I think I hope most people understand is, like any think governments are doing is all is all driven by the people that put them in power. Right, it's the the population, the customer, the consumer. Right, it's is really a lot of like all of this has been driven right, like wanting more privacy and wanting some of this regulation to protect themselves in government governments picked up on it and and run with it. And so, you know, I think it's a good thing. You know, I know, I think, I think for a long time, you know, I've been, I've been in this industry since since one thousand nine hundred and more kiosking and retail or you see what? What? where? Are Some know, our neighbors to the south, they're experimenting with a bunch of stuff. The opportunities are really endless if you really think about it, I think stores. I think you're going to see a lot more you know and add different different stages. So like, you know, be it. You know We have in our stores in Canada. We have it. We have, just implemented some screens and in in areas of our stores like the Delhi fresh section and soon too be in pharmacy where, you know, customers tend to that. And then, you know, feather in and ads experience and so evolution of what our APP will be, you know, beyond just another version looking to the US, you know, the APP for walmartcom is very you're shopping, it's any commerce experience. When you're in the store, it's more of a shopping aid, right. Love Them. That's great. So their pocket and if you're get it, you're a loyal customer. It's going Is are the possibilities both for us in terms of creating a great customer experience as Walmart, but also to the brands that we work with to be able to connect with with those customers in real time, while while they are in the source. Yeah, I'm a little this the plant. I have to say that that you didn't. Your answer wasn't writtinal scanning devices and facial recognition stuffware? Yeah, like, well, we'll save the what is it? serious. So, I mean, I know that they're, you know, stioneering can is supporting to get it right. But we're also seeing some other things happening as well in terms of the death of cookies and and around the world, there seems to be a degree as the greater sensitivity, at least at the government level, about you know, that's going to be challenging from ours, facing new obstacles around the collection and use of consumer data what like? well, I think, first of all, I think you know, by people, right, like wanting more privacy and wanting some of this regulation to protect themselves in government governments picked up on it and and run with it. And so, you know, I think it's a good thing. You as long like I've been, I've been in this industry since since one thousand...

...ninety eight, right, and so so google, Google hadn't even put an ad on their search engine yet, John, when I when I started working in digital media, right, and so you know. But you look at you look at the value exchange of how the free Internet has really operated and you know, and the cookie as like a key tool that has been used, you know, within that, within that ecosystem, and it hasn't changed much, right, and so the fact that now it is changing, I think, is a good thing. I think it's a good thing for consumers, I think it's a good thing for marketers and I think it's a good think it's a good thing across the board, right, that we're doing this. So I think I think you can continue to see, you know, you know, the evolution of that at a like provincial levels and federal levels And around the world. We've are we've already seen that. I think the impact on the industry is fairly straightforward, which is, you know, it's know, it's what you know you hear a lot of talk about in all of these types of forms, which is diminished signal strength, right, and you know leverage, you know, second third party data that was mostly captured through the use of cookies will diminished, and so it makes it more important than ever to work with strong partners with strong first party data assets, right, because the impact on the industry is squarely in the ability to measure right, which, as a marketer, as we as we know, is is something that we need to do. And so, you know, I know, I read a I think it was a deloit analysis on it and you know, when when the chrome fixes do go in and other browsers adopt similar you know, strength up to thirty percent, and I think that's fairly conservative, of digital marketing span won't be measurable. So that is a big gap for for marketers, if you think about it. And so that's our approach is like. That's where we feel we can come in and be a truly valued partner to advertisers is because we have these first party strong first party strong first party data assets. You know, we don't rely on other sources and we feel that we can, we can provide, you know, great measurement and insights to our clients in in a brand safe and transparent environment. That's great. No, thanks, Dan, and I really enjoyed this provocative and really it makes you think about the future, which I think is important. Absolutely ask the final question and put you on the spot, because spot, because many of our listeners are younger in age coming into a new and I wondered if your opinion, because you you need a big team, a growing team. What do you see from young professionals coming into marketing right now? What do you wish they they had more of or thought more about? thought more about? Any any advice for the new marketer? Yeah, I think great question. I think, you know, I think it's I think you know, one of the most challenging times to work in the profession, yeah, as well as one of the most excited, right, and and you know, challenging because the landscape keeps changing, right, like if like if you look like let's go back to like just like the S, which is which isn't that long ago for a couple of old guys like you know where you know, you think about this. It was fairly easy to not easy, but it was. It was a lot simpler to lot simpler to reach your target audience right through through broadcast TV. Like it It was tuned in. Everyone, you know what was watching the cosby show at the same time, same night, and and it was you know, it was scheduled and it was a lot more predictable in either. So, you know, you think of like Holy Grail of marketing, of like of like that right combination of reach and frequency. You know, it to do that with, you know, buying your spots through a few a few key network passed forward twenty, five, thirty years right to where we nine hundred and ninety eight, right, and so so google, Google hadn't even put an ad on their search engine yet, John, when I when I started working in digital media, right, and so you know. But thing. I think it's a good thing across the board, right, that we're doing this. So I think I think you can continue to see, in Canada. And around the world. We've are we've already seen that. I think the impact on the industry is fairly straightforward, which is, you and companies that, you know leverage, you know, second third party data that was mostly captured through the use of cookies will diminished, and so it makes it more important than ever to work with strong partners with strong first party data assets, right, because the impact on the industry is squarely in the ability to measure right, which, as a marketer, as we as we know, is is something that we need to do. And so, you they they predicted, you know, when when the chrome fixes do go in and other browsers adopt similar you know, strength up to thirty percent, and I think that's fairly conservative, of digital marketing span won't be measurable. So that is a big gap for for marketers, if you think about it. And so that's our approach is like. That's where we feel we can come in and be a truly valued partner to advertisers is because we have these first conversation. It's provocative and really it makes you think about the future, which I think is important. Absolutely ask the final question and put you on the professions within marketing and I wondered if your opinion, because you you need a big team, a growing team. What do you see from young professionals coming into marketing right now? What do you wish they they had more of or it's both probably, you know, one of the most challenging times to work in the profession, yeah, as well as one of the most excited, right, and and you know, challenging because the landscape keeps changing, right, you and I, you know where you know, you think about this. It was fairly easy to not easy, but it was. It was a was broadcast TV. It was tuned in. Everyone, you know what was watching the cosby show at the same time, same night, and and it was you know, it was scheduled and it was a lot more predictable in either. So, you know, you think of like Holy Grail of marketing, was fairly simple to do that with, you know, buying your spots through a few a few key network passed forward twenty, five, thirty years right...

...to where we are now. And audiences are fragmented right like think about all and times and and and they amount of content there is out there and where the audiences are. And so as a marketer it's you know, and certainly and certainly in the advertiser it's like how do you connect with your customers or your and your potential customers? It's not as easy as it used to but then, you know, it's exciting be because there is so much to so much to work with, right, like there is these, you know, and amazing channels like, you know, like like we have in like social media and and you know, obviously, you know, Youtube in itself as in itself as a social network and places like that, and there's more content ever before, right, and and you know. So, so I think so I think for young people it's just like there's so much to work with change, right, so you're constantly learning, like there's a reason why, you know, having a growth mindset is and being agile and being, you know, adept to dealing with change is going to be really important for these young people coming in the industry because changes, changes constant, right. And but but it's exciting too, because there's this there's this great confluence happening as confluence happening as well between technology and creativity, right, like there's all this there and there's all this incredible creative work being done. That leverage is the tack to create these great stories that brands get to share with the with their customers. So so yeah, so I think, you know, for anyone considering a career in the space, like you're you're going into a world that a world that is creative, that is technical, that is ever changing and it's I think it's a great time to be a marketer's fantastic. Yeah, Yeah, you're touching on a little bit about some of the technology and direct TV and hopefully at an upcoming segmental I'll be able to interduce someone in that topic and gifts again, a Merriat if changes are happening. But, was a fantastic discussion. Thank you for your time, thank you for your you for your your willingness to share your skills and share your knowledge and your listeners. I appreciate your timing today. Absolutely. John, great discussion and great to see you and thanks for having us. Thanks for joining us. Be Sure to visit thus CMA DOT CAA and sign up for a my cma a my cma account to stay connected to us and all the latest marketing news the different places and times and and and they amount of content there is out there and where the audiences are. And so as a marketer it's you know, be. So but then, you know, it's exciting be because there is incredibly powerful and amazing channels like, you know, like like we have in like social media and and you know, obviously, you know, Youtube being produced than ever before, right, and and you know. So, and it's constant change, right, so you're constantly learning, like there's a reason why, you know, having a growth mindset is and being agile and being, you know, adept to dealing with change is going to be really important for these young people coming in the industry because changes, changes constant, right. And but but it's exciting too, because there's this there's this great great tech out there and there's all this incredible creative work being done. That leverage is the tack to create these great stories that brands get to share with the with their customers. So so yeah, so I think, you know, for anyone considering a career in the space, like you're you're going into and I think it's I think it's a great time to be a marketer's fantastic. Dana, that was a fantastic discussion. Thank you for your time, thank perspective with our listeners. I appreciate your timing today. Absolutely. John, great discussion and great to see you and thanks for having us. Thanks for joining us. Be Sure to visit thus CMA DOT CAA and sign up for and industry trends.

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